Legislature(2021 - 2022)SENATE FINANCE 532

04/25/2022 01:00 PM Senate FINANCE

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Audio Topic
01:04:11 PM Start
01:04:32 PM Constitutional Budget Reserve Sweep/reverse Sweep
02:46:27 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: Constitutional Budget Reserve TELECONFERENCED
Sweep & Reverse Sweep
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      April 25, 2022                                                                                            
                         1:04 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:04:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman   called  the  Senate   Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 1:04 p.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Click Bishop, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
Senator Natasha von Imhof                                                                                                       
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator David Wilson                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Neil Steininger, Director, Office  of Management and Budget,                                                                    
Office   of   the   Governor;  Alexei   Painter,   Director,                                                                    
Legislative  Finance  Division;   Megan  Wallace,  Director,                                                                    
Legislative Legal  Services, Alaska State  Legislature; Kris                                                                    
Curtis, Legislative Auditor,  Alaska Division of Legislative                                                                    
Audit.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^CONSTITUTIONAL BUDGET RESERVE SWEEP/REVERSE SWEEP                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:04:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  commented that the committee  would have a                                                                    
discussion  on  the  Constitutional  Budget  Reserve  (CBR),                                                                    
which would  also involve discussion  of the  reverse sweep.                                                                    
He  reminded  that the  CBR  was  the states   main  savings                                                                    
account and required a three-quarter  vote of both bodies to                                                                    
access. He recounted  that at the end of  every fiscal year,                                                                    
the  account  balances were  removed  from  a long  list  of                                                                    
accounts  and went  into the  CBR, after  which there  was a                                                                    
reversal on the first day of the fiscal year.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:06:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NEIL STEININGER, DIRECTOR, OFFICE  OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET,                                                                    
OFFICE   OF  THE   GOVERNOR,   discussed  the   presentation                                                                    
Constitutional  Budget   Reserve  Sweep  -   Senate  Finance                                                                    
Committee -  April 25,  2022" (copy on  file). He  turned to                                                                    
slide 2, "Sweep Guidelines":                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The   Constitutional  Budget   Reserve  Fund   and  its                                                                    
     repayment "sweep" provision                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The  CBRF was  established by  constitutional amendment                                                                    
     in  1990  in  article  IX, section  17  of  the  Alaska                                                                    
     Constitution.  There  are   four  subsections  to  this                                                                    
     constitutional amendment:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     (a) Revenue  into the  CBRF    money received  from the                                                                    
     termination of administrative  and judicial proceedings                                                                    
     involving mineral revenues is deposited into the CBRF;                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     (b) Expenditures  from the CBRF  by majority  vote only                                                                    
     if    "the  amount  available for  appropriation for  a                                                                    
     fiscal year  is less  than the amount  appropriated for                                                                    
     the  previous fiscal  year"  and  the appropriation  is                                                                    
     limited  to   the  amount   necessary  to   make  total                                                                    
     appropriations equal to the  amount appropriated in the                                                                    
     prior year;                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     (c) Expenditures from the CBRF  by a three-fourths vote                                                                    
     of  the members  of each  house    the Legislature  can                                                                    
     appropriate from the  fund for any public  purpose if a                                                                    
     supermajority vote is obtained;                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     (d)  Repayment requirement    "If  an appropriation  is                                                                    
     made from the [CBRF],  until the amount appropriated is                                                                    
     repaid,  the  amount  of  money  in  the  general  fund                                                                    
     available  for   appropriation  at  the  end   of  each                                                                    
     succeeding  fiscal  year  shall  be  deposited  in  the                                                                    
     [CBRF].   The   legislature    shall   implement   this                                                                    
     subsection by law."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger highlighted  that the  repayment requirement                                                                    
listed in item (d) on the  slide was the primary reason that                                                                    
the  discussion  was taking  place.  He  explained that  the                                                                    
repayment  requirement  effectively  said  that  should  the                                                                    
state spend  funds from the CBR,  so long as there  was debt                                                                    
to the  CBR there was an  obligation to pay back  the funds.                                                                    
The  way  the  amendment  enforced  the  obligation  was  by                                                                    
creating a repayment provision that  required that until the                                                                    
state repaid  the debt, any  amount of money in  the General                                                                    
Fund  that was  available for  appropriation at  the end  of                                                                    
each  fiscal year  shall be  deposited  in to  the CBR.  The                                                                    
amendment said the  section shall be implemented  by law. He                                                                    
asserted that one reason for  the hearing was that there was                                                                    
nothing  in law  defining the  subsection and  the repayment                                                                    
provision beyond the words highlighted in the presentation.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  asked  Mr. Steininger  to  highlight  the                                                                    
payment  plan  that would  be  required  to repay  the  CBR,                                                                    
including the interest rate.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  recalled that the  state had  withdrawn well                                                                    
over  $12  billion  from  the  CBR, but  there  was  not  an                                                                    
established payment plan  to payback the CBR  nor were there                                                                    
interest requirements on the payments.  Because of Section B                                                                    
and Section C, which defined how  money was spent out of the                                                                    
CBR,  there was  a three-quarters  vote requirement  to make                                                                    
any  payments  out.  When   the  repayment  provisions  were                                                                    
triggered  on  an  annual  basis,  in  order  to  avoid  the                                                                    
emptying  of the  available-for-appropriation monies  in the                                                                    
General Fund  from being moved  into the CBR, it  required a                                                                    
three-quarters  vote  of  the  legislature  to  reverse  the                                                                    
action. He summarized that the  repayment provision was what                                                                    
was  commonly known  as  the  sweep,  and  the three-quarter                                                                    
vote to reverse the action  was commonly called  the reverse                                                                    
sweep.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:10:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger  advanced to  slide  3,  "Test  1 -  In  the                                                                    
General Fund":                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     ?The first test of Section 17(d) requires 'swept'                                                                          
     money to be "in the general fund"                                                                                          
     ?"General fund" is not defined in the constitution or                                                                      
     statute                                                                                                                    
     ?Prior to 2019 No specific definition, determinations                                                                      
     based on accounting structure not law.                                                                                     
     ?2019 Attorney General opinion addresses definition.                                                                       
     General Fund is any fund populated by unrestricted                                                                         
    revenue outside a constitutionally dedicated fund.                                                                          
      2021   Superior Court opinion narrows definition.                                                                         
     Statute can define a fund as outside the general fund.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  explained that the  term "General  Fund" had                                                                    
been up to interpretation by  the Division of Finance in its                                                                    
recording  of  the  states  Comprehensive  Annual  Financial                                                                    
Report  (CAFR).  He  mentioned  that  the  attorney  general                                                                    
opinion listed on  the slide had somewhat  expanded the view                                                                    
of  what  the  General   Fund  was  beyond  just  accounting                                                                    
structure and looked at how the fund could be defined.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger noted that the  Alaska Superior Court opinion                                                                    
had  specifically  considered  the Power  Cost  Equalization                                                                    
(PCE) Fund, which was established  outside the General Fund,                                                                    
but also  had implications  for other  funds that  the state                                                                    
managed and were statutorily defined  as outside the General                                                                    
Fund. Based  on the court's  opinion, as it applied  test 1,                                                                    
the Office  of Management and  Budget (OMB) looked at  how a                                                                    
fund was established  in statute. He noted  that the court's                                                                    
opinion was  not binding for  further legal action,  and the                                                                    
opinion could change over time.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:14:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger showed  slide  4, "Test  2  - Available  for                                                                    
Appropriation -2019":                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     ?The second test of Section 17(d) requires 'swept'                                                                         
     money to be "available for appropriation"                                                                                  
     ?Unassigned or unobligated funds that may be                                                                               
     appropriated by the legislature for any purpose                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     ?Funds available for appropriation include:                                                                                
          ?Funds for which the  legislature has retained the                                                                    
          power to  appropriate and  that are  not available                                                                    
          to  pay expenditures  without further  legislative                                                                    
          appropriation                                                                                                         
          ?Funds  with  statutory  designation  on  use  but                                                                    
         require an appropriation for expenditure                                                                               
     ?Funds not available for appropriation include                                                                             
          ?Money  in   a  fund   that  is   already  validly                                                                    
          appropriated to a particular purpose                                                                                  
          ?Federal  or trust  funds such  that  can only  be                                                                    
          used    for    a    specific    stated    purpose,                                                                    
          constitutionally  permissible dedicated  funds and                                                                    
          pension funds                                                                                                         
          ?Donations for a specific purpose                                                                                     
          ?Funds that do not require appropriation for                                                                          
          expenditure                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger mentioned  that there were a  couple of funds                                                                    
that did not require  appropriation for expenditure. He used                                                                    
the  example   of  the  Disaster  Relief   Fund,  which  the                                                                    
Department  of Military  and Veterans  Affairs could  use to                                                                    
spend for disasters at any time.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:17:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Wilson   asked   about  the   example   of   funds                                                                    
appropriated for a particular purpose.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  used the  example of  a capital  project and                                                                    
mentioned there  were General Fund  dollars that  provided a                                                                    
state  match for  highway programs.  The projects  generally                                                                    
took several years to complete,  and once the money had been                                                                    
appropriated,  it was  considered  obligated   or  assigned                                                                     
in the state  accounting system. Since the  funds were spent                                                                    
for  a   purpose,  it  was  not   considered  available  for                                                                    
appropriation for the purpose of the CBR sweep.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wilson asked  about reappropriations  and mentioned                                                                    
funds that were leftover and requests for reappropriation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger explained  that effectively a reappropriation                                                                    
was reducing a  prior year appropriation and  creating a new                                                                    
appropriation  in a  future  year in  the  same amount.  The                                                                    
money was  validly appropriated  and could  be spent  by the                                                                    
administration in execution of  the appropriation. While the                                                                    
legislature  could always  reduce an  appropriation, it  did                                                                    
not  make  the appropriation  less  valid  until the  action                                                                    
happened.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman mentioned the  administration's sweep of the                                                                    
PCE Fund. He  shared that he had always  considered the fund                                                                    
unsweepable  and reminded  that  he had  been  chair of  the                                                                    
House  Finance Committee  when  the resolution  establishing                                                                    
the fund  was written.  He asked if  the 5  percent earnings                                                                    
from  the PCE  Fund  (that was  distributed  for a  specific                                                                    
purpose in state law) was sweepable.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger stated that per  the superior court decision,                                                                    
the entire balance  of the PCE Fund would not  be subject to                                                                    
the sweep.  The monies that went  to the PCE Program  or any                                                                    
of the  other energy programs and  community assistance that                                                                    
flowed out of the fund would  not be subject to the issue of                                                                    
the sweep.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:20:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger  referenced  slide 5,  "Sweep  Balances  and                                                                    
Timeline":                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     ?Unobligated balance at midnight on June 30th                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     ?Cash balance less:                                                                                                        
          ?Continuing appropriations capital projects                                                                           
          ?Unavailable balances donations, federal funds,                                                                       
          obligated balances                                                                                                    
          ?Obligated    balances   can    include   assigned                                                                    
          balances, recently referred to as the "scoop"                                                                         
               ?GASB 54  "An appropriation of  existing fund                                                                    
               balance  to eliminate  a projected  budgetary                                                                    
               deficit  in the  subsequent year's  budget in                                                                    
               an  amount  no  greater  than  the  projected                                                                    
               excess   of    expected   expenditures   over                                                                    
               expected revenues  satisfies the  criteria to                                                                    
               be  classified  as   an  assignment  of  fund                                                                    
               balance."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     ?Sweep transactions held until end of following fiscal                                                                     
     year                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  described that the  slide was  a description                                                                    
of  how the  state  mechanically implemented  the two  tests                                                                    
described in previous slides. He  discussed working with the                                                                    
Division  of Finance  to  determine  fund balances,  closing                                                                    
accounting  statements over  two months,  and completion  of                                                                    
the  CAFR before  it moved  to the  Division of  Legislative                                                                    
Audit  for  review. He  noted  that  generally speaking  the                                                                    
audit was completed  around March, and while  the sweep took                                                                    
place on June  30, there were no audited  balances until the                                                                    
CAFR   audit   was   complete.   He   recounted   that   the                                                                    
administration was  waiting until  June to allow  for remedy                                                                    
prior to  transferring dollars. There were  active proposals                                                                    
in the legislature and  other considerations before actually                                                                    
liquidating investments  and transferring  the funds  in the                                                                    
sweep.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger noted  that  there  were additional  factors                                                                    
considered  when looking  at  the balance  to  be swept.  He                                                                    
listed  looking at  capital projects,  unavailable balances,                                                                    
and   assignment  of   balances   that   had  been   validly                                                                    
appropriated  prior to  June 30.  He cited  the Governmental                                                                    
Accounting Standards  Board (GASB)  Rule 54, which  spoke to                                                                    
determination of  the balance of  a fund, which  allowed for                                                                    
looking  at  valid  appropriations  signed  into  law  while                                                                    
requiring a  certain fund balance.  He summarized  that when                                                                    
the appropriation bill was signed  into law prior to June 30                                                                    
of the previous  year, the administration was  able to count                                                                    
the  appropriations  as  valid  assignments  against  funds,                                                                    
which avoided  negative operational  impacts as a  result of                                                                    
the sweep, however at the  close of the fiscal year (barring                                                                    
legislative  action)   only  projected  revenues   would  be                                                                    
available in the funds.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:24:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  thought   Mr.  Steininger  had  mentioned                                                                    
"remedies," and asked him to elaborate.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Steininger  explained   that  the   governors   budget                                                                    
released on December 15 had  not addressed the sweep itself.                                                                    
Rather,  OMB had  changed  fund  sources for  sweep-impacted                                                                    
programs  to spend  from UGF.  Several budget  amendments in                                                                    
both bodies would  alter things and move money  into some of                                                                    
the funds. There  were a couple of bills  that would address                                                                    
the  sweepability  of  some  of  the  funds  that  funded  a                                                                    
considerable number  of programs. Because there  was current                                                                    
policy  discussion  in  the legislature  regarding  specific                                                                    
funds,  the  administration felt  it  was  prudent to  delay                                                                    
transferring money into the CBR  until seeing if there was a                                                                    
remedy from  the legislature with  a three-quarters  vote to                                                                    
move the monies out of the CBR.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger continued  that  on paper  the dollars  were                                                                    
currently in  the CBR. He  mentioned that there was  a  due-                                                                    
to/due-from list  in  the CAFR which showed  funds that were                                                                    
due  to   the  CBR  from   the  individual  funds.   From  a                                                                    
treasury/cash  management  perspective,  the  administration                                                                    
had yet  to liquidate  the investments  were waiting  to see                                                                    
the outcome of the legislative session.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman summarized  that in FY 22, there  was not a                                                                    
successful vote of the legislature  to reverse the sweep, so                                                                    
the  legislature could  take action  to  have reverse  sweep                                                                    
language  in  the appropriation  bill  before  the close  of                                                                    
business on June 30.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steinigner agreed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman asked  if  the governor  had  put forth  a                                                                    
reverse sweep in the appropriation language for FY 22.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  answered in the negative  and explained that                                                                    
the  programs were  funded with  UGF  to avoid  programmatic                                                                    
impacts from the sweep.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked if Mr.  Steininger would say that not                                                                    
doing the reverse sweep would  get messy. He asked about the                                                                    
purpose of the delay.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger explained  that the purpose of  the delay was                                                                    
to make  the financial transaction, which  required the CAFR                                                                    
to be completed  and finalized through an audit  in order to                                                                    
know the  actual balances available  to be swept,  which had                                                                    
not happened until March of  the current year. Because there                                                                    
were live proposals  in the legislature that  would undo the                                                                    
action,  the executive  branch felt  it was  prudent not  to                                                                    
liquidate investments  if it did  not have to. If  there was                                                                    
nothing to reverse  the sweep and the  governor's budget was                                                                    
enacted  as written,  at the  close of  the fiscal  year the                                                                    
administration would have to  liquidate the investments, and                                                                    
transfer the monies into the CBR  to be managed based on the                                                                    
CBRs  asset  allocation. He  reiterated that  the governors                                                                     
office was waiting to see what happened in the legislature.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:29:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman recalled  from  conversation the  previous                                                                    
year that  there was an  opportunity cost of $30  million to                                                                    
$40 million per year.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger affirmed  that  there  was some  opportunity                                                                    
cost in the different management  between some of the funds,                                                                    
which was  a big  part of  the reason that  OMB had  held on                                                                    
liquidating the assets. If there  was material action on any                                                                    
of the  funds from  any existing legislative  proposals, the                                                                    
administration  did not  want to  have taken  an unnecessary                                                                    
loss on investments by hastily executing the sweep.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  asked if  Mr.  Steininger  could list  the                                                                    
disruptions to  programs that  were a  result of  not having                                                                    
the  reverse  sweep  take  place.  He  referenced  a  2-page                                                                    
document  entitled  "Sweepable  Funds" (copy  on  file).  He                                                                    
thought there  were 40  or 50 programs,  and he  asked about                                                                    
the disruption to the citizens of the state.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger relayed that that  uncertainty was created as                                                                    
a result of discussions around  the sweep. The assignment of                                                                    
appropriated  balances allowed  for  payment of  scholarship                                                                    
programs  without a  material disruption  to  people of  the                                                                    
state. He  cited longer term  impacts of having  to evaluate                                                                    
how the  revenue in  some of the  funds interacted  with the                                                                    
programs, and that  there would be impacts  from a financial                                                                    
management    perspective.    He   summarized    that    the                                                                    
administration was seeking to  avoid the operational impacts                                                                    
that would impact  Alaskans, and that the  impacts were more                                                                    
on the side of accounting and budget management.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman   commented  that  since  1990   until  the                                                                    
previous  year, the  reverse sweep  had  been automatic.  He                                                                    
felt one  of the  big issues  had been  the administration's                                                                    
determination that  the PCE Fund  was sweepable.  He thought                                                                    
the determination was the biggest  factor in not getting the                                                                    
reverse  sweep. He  thought  the court  case  was strong  in                                                                    
saying the PCE  Fund should not be swept.  He thought future                                                                    
legislatures needed to look back  to the original purpose of                                                                    
the sweep, and revert to an automatic reverse sweep.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  continued his comments. He  emphasized that                                                                    
there was  a reason  for the reverse  sweep and  thought the                                                                    
reasoning for  the recent lack  of reverse sweep was  not in                                                                    
line with the original intent.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:33:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wilson asked  if the  executive  branch had  worked                                                                    
with the  Department of Law  to analyze any  potential legal                                                                    
issues  regarding  use  of  tracking   of  funds  for  their                                                                    
intended purposes.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger  relayed  that  the  governors   office  had                                                                    
structured  its budget  to  ensure that  the  intent of  the                                                                    
programs  could   be  executed   using  General   Funds.  He                                                                    
continued that in  determining the balance to  be swept, the                                                                    
office  reviewed  to ensure  that  a  fund did  not  include                                                                    
donations  or monies  that did  not have  a restriction.  He                                                                    
thought  the administration  had done  its due  diligence to                                                                    
ensure that there were not legal issues being created.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wilson used  the example  of using  funds from  the                                                                    
Cruise Ship Head  Tax. He asked if there was  a way to track                                                                    
some of the separate funds that had special uses.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  used the  Tobacco Tax  as an  example, which                                                                    
flowed into a  DGF fund. The revenues would  still flow into                                                                    
a designated  fund, which  would be  tracked in  the budget.                                                                    
The difference was that the  amount in the budget would only                                                                    
be  the amount  that was  projected to  be collected  in the                                                                    
following  year. For  items  such as  the  Tobacco Tax,  the                                                                    
governors  office  had to adjust  the budget in  December to                                                                    
only  utilize the  fund only  up the  amount it  expected to                                                                    
collect in  FY 23. In  order to  ensure the program  was not                                                                    
harmed by the accounting issue,  the budget used UGF for the                                                                    
remainder to fund the programs.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:37:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilson  mentioned that there  was a position  or two                                                                    
in the  Department of Administration that  would be utilized                                                                    
for managing some of the  funds discussed by Mr. Steininger.                                                                    
He  asked  if  the  administration  would  be  submitting  a                                                                    
supplemental  and if  the positions  would be  eliminated in                                                                    
the case that there was no sweep.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger affirmed  the  administration had  accounted                                                                    
for the use of the funds  in the Department of Revenue (DOR)                                                                    
as  it put  together  the projection  of  the revenues  that                                                                    
would become available  for the next year.  He affirmed that                                                                    
it should not take any supplementals for the positions.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wilson clarified  that he  was not  referencing the                                                                    
use of the fund, but rather  the management of the funds. He                                                                    
noted that the Higher Education  Fund was managed by DOR. He                                                                    
asked if  investment officers would  still be needed  if the                                                                    
funds were swept.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger  noted  that the  investment  managers  also                                                                    
invested  the  CBR,  and  there   were  still  assets  under                                                                    
management at the Treasury. He  did not see the sweep action                                                                    
having a  material impact on  a workload such that  it would                                                                    
reduce the  need for staff.  He pointed out  that investment                                                                    
managers would still be managing  the cash whether it was in                                                                    
the CBR or in the Higher Education Fund.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  raised the  subject  of  what was  validly                                                                    
appropriated. He asked  if funds that were  encumbered for a                                                                    
particular  purpose  were  not  subject  to  the  sweep.  He                                                                    
considered funds that were encumbered to be appropriated.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger noted that the  term "encumbrance" could have                                                                    
a very  specific meaning within accounting.  He relayed that                                                                    
obligated balances  were money  that had  been appropriated,                                                                    
while  an   encumbrance  would  be   an  assignment   of  an                                                                    
appropriated balance.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Hoffman  asked   under  what   scenario  did   the                                                                    
administration    classify   encumbrances    as   a    valid                                                                    
appropriation and not subject to the sweep.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger relayed  that  for a  department  to load  a                                                                    
valid  encumbrance in  the accounting  system, it  needed to                                                                    
have  an appropriation  which to  encumber against.  Such an                                                                    
item  would  be a  valid  appropriation  that would  not  be                                                                    
considered a sweepable portion of the fund.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:41:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman   interpreted  that  Mr.   Steininger  was                                                                    
indicating  that   with  the   delay  after   the  financial                                                                    
statements had  come to  conclusion, it would  be a  mess to                                                                    
liquidate  the assets  and move  them  to the  CBR, and  the                                                                    
administration would  prefer not  to do  the move  unless it                                                                    
was required, hoping that the  legislature would implement a                                                                    
reverse sweep in the FY 22 supplemental budget.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger  did  not think  the  administration  had  a                                                                    
strong position on the matter.  He asserted that it was most                                                                    
concerned about  ensuring that the underlying  programs were                                                                    
funded and  continued. He  affirmed that  the administration                                                                    
was  holding   and  waiting  to   see  the  action   of  the                                                                    
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman reminded  that Mr. Steiningers  predecessor                                                                    
at OMB had advocated not to  do a reverse sweep, and to then                                                                    
transfer the  PCE Fund and  the Higher Education  Trust Fund                                                                    
over  to the  CBR, which  he thought  had started  the large                                                                    
number of  issues being  considered currently.  He mentioned                                                                    
that  other  testifiers,  including  the  directors  of  the                                                                    
Legislative   Finance   Division   and   Legislative   Legal                                                                    
Services, as  well as the  legislative auditor might  have a                                                                    
different  opinion as  to how  the transactions  should have                                                                    
taken place the previous June.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilson  asked if  the administration  was supportive                                                                    
or not supportive of a sweep.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger asserted  that  the  administration did  not                                                                    
have a  strong position on  the matter. He  highlighted that                                                                    
there were negative consequences  to liquidating the assets,                                                                    
such  as investment  earning losses.  He  asserted that  the                                                                    
administration  wanted to  ensure  and had  been working  to                                                                    
ensure  that   the  programs  themselves  were   funded  and                                                                    
continued, which  had taken a considerable  amount of review                                                                    
over   the  previous   summer.   He   reiterated  that   the                                                                    
administration did  not have a  strong stance on  the matter                                                                    
but saw it as an issue  for the legislature to decide on the                                                                    
structure of  funds and  how they  were appropriated  in the                                                                    
budget.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman used  the analogy of starting  a house fire                                                                    
and not caring whether the fire department was called.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wilson asked  if the  administration would  like to                                                                    
lean towards enacting  the new policies or if  it would like                                                                    
to go  back to  the failure  of a sweep.  He thought  it was                                                                    
peculiar  that  the administration  did  not  have a  strong                                                                    
position on the  issue, when there were  millions of dollars                                                                    
in  lost opportunity  and the  situation  was an  accounting                                                                    
nightmare.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:46:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Bishop  commented that the current  situation was a                                                                    
result of  putting monetary policy  in the  constitution and                                                                    
then  not   having  necessary   votes.  He   mentioned  lost                                                                    
opportunity  costs,  and  the cost  of  obtaining  a  three-                                                                    
quarters vote.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger  wanted  to  add  more  specificity  to  his                                                                    
comments regarding support for  the sweep versus the reverse                                                                    
sweep.  He  added that  the  administration  had a  bill  to                                                                    
address  the Alaska  Marine Highway  System (AMHS)  Fund, in                                                                    
order  to structure  it  in a  way that  would  make it  not                                                                    
subject to  the sweep.  He asserted that  the administration                                                                    
considered the operations of state  government, and what was                                                                    
required to make it successful.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger emphasized that  the administration looked at                                                                    
each  individual fund  to determine  in which  programs does                                                                    
the inherent operation of the  program depend on a fund that                                                                    
would    not   get    swept.   After    consideration,   the                                                                    
administration had put  forward the bill to  remove the AMHS                                                                    
Fund from  being subject to  the sweep, since  the operation                                                                    
of  AMHS and  its  stability was  intertwined.  Some of  the                                                                    
other funds  were not necessarily  tied to the  operation of                                                                    
the program itself, and could  be funded with General Funds,                                                                    
or in a combination of  current year revenue collections and                                                                    
General Funds.  He thought  the matter  was not  a one-size-                                                                    
fits-all question. He emphasized looking  at the matter on a                                                                    
program-by-program basis.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  thought every fall the  administration put                                                                    
a  budget together,  before which  it  scrubbed accounts  to                                                                    
take out  excess liquidity. Then the  legislature spent time                                                                    
going over the accounts and  looking for balances that could                                                                    
be moved to  the General Fund. He emphasized  that the funds                                                                    
did  not  have  excessive  cash  cushions.  He  thought  the                                                                    
accounts had been reviewed every  year that he could recall.                                                                    
He  thought  there was  some  misconception  that there  was                                                                    
excess liquidity in the accounts, which was not the case.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:50:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALEXEI  PAINTER,  DIRECTOR,  LEGISLATIVE  FINANCE  DIVISION,                                                                    
discussed a  presentation, "CBR Sweep in  FY23 Budget" (copy                                                                    
on  file). He  relayed that  he  would speak  about the  CBR                                                                    
sweep in the FY 23 budget  in the governors  version and the                                                                    
versions passed  by the  other body as  well as  the version                                                                    
currently in the Senate Finance Committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He turned  to slide 2,  "Budget Changes in FY23  in Response                                                                    
to Failure of FY22 Reverse Sweep":                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     ? Governor's budget included $33.6 million of fund                                                                         
     changes from sweepable funds to UGF to reduce the                                                                          
     impact of the sweep.                                                                                                       
            The largest of these is the $21.8 million of                                                                        
          fund changes from the Higher Education Fund.                                                                          
            The  House and Senate Finance  budgets adopt all                                                                    
          of these  fund changes, except that  the House did                                                                    
          not  accept  the  fund   change  from  the  Higher                                                                    
          Education Fund.                                                                                                       
     ? House and Senate Finance budgets also shift the                                                                          
     timing of deposits into Oil and Hazardous Release                                                                          
     funds to avoid sweep.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Painter  summarized  that  the  change  to  the  Higher                                                                    
Education  Fund removed  all funds  and  replaced them  with                                                                    
General Funds.  Other funds with ongoing  sources of revenue                                                                    
just removed the  amounts in excess of  projected revenue in                                                                    
FY 23 and replaced it with  UGF. He noted that the budget in                                                                    
front of  the committee  contained a  number of  fund source                                                                    
changes to mitigate  the impact of the  sweep. He summarized                                                                    
that the combined  items, the actual impact of  not having a                                                                    
reverse  sweep  in  the  current   years   budget  would  be                                                                    
minimal, although there were some  funds that could still be                                                                    
affected.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Painter referenced slide 3,  "House Budget's Handling of                                                                    
Swept Funds":                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
        The House  budget recapitalizes  all swept  funds in                                                                    
     FY22 from the general fund (not the CBR).                                                                                  
     ? However,  only the Higher  Education Fund is  used in                                                                    
     FY23  in the  House budget,  so for  the most  part the                                                                    
     House budget does not rely on the sweep.                                                                                   
     ? The reverse sweep vote in  the House failed, so as it                                                                    
     stands now,  all those  funds would  again be  swept to                                                                    
     the CBR.                                                                                                                   
     ? Based  on the  "scoop" or  assignment interpretation,                                                                    
     the  Higher Education  Fund appropriations  would still                                                                    
     flow out in  FY23 but the remainder of  the funds would                                                                    
     be swept.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Painter commented  that the  other body  had approached                                                                    
the swept funds in a very  different way than had the Senate                                                                    
or the administration.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:55:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Painter advanced to slide  4, "Other Funds that Could Be                                                                    
Impacted by the FY22 Sweep":                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     ? Alaska Marine  Highway System Fund   not  used in the                                                                    
     FY22 budget in  an effort to save up a  balance for the                                                                    
     future. Absent  any changes, the FY22  revenue into the                                                                    
     fund will be swept.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     ? Alaska Capital  Income Fund   revenue to  the fund is                                                                    
     volatile  because  it  is  based  on  earnings  of  the                                                                    
     Permanent Fund.  Possible that a balance  will sweep in                                                                    
     FY22 because  the Permanent  Fund's realized  income is                                                                    
     currently trending above the forecast.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     ? The fund  changes proposed by the  Governor are based                                                                    
     on projected  revenue. If revenue to  these funds falls                                                                    
     short of  projections, supplemental  appropriations may                                                                    
     be  needed. If  revenue  exceeds projections,  balances                                                                    
     may sweep.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Painter used  the example  of the  Capital Income  Fund                                                                    
(CIF) as a  fund with a volatile balance.  He explained that                                                                    
the CIF  came from realized  earnings of the  Permanent Fund                                                                    
on  the Amerada-Hess  deposit, after  which  the funds  were                                                                    
designated   for   deferred   maintenance.   Currently   the                                                                    
Permanent  Fund  was  a  little  ahead  in  projections  for                                                                    
realizing income,  and if materialized  there would  be more                                                                    
revenue in  the CIF than in  the budget and would  result in                                                                    
fund sweeping  at the end  of FY  22. He summarized  that in                                                                    
the  post-sweep world,  if the  legislature  wanted to  keep                                                                    
using DGF, it would create issues in the budget.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Painter  continued  his  remarks.  He  thought  it  was                                                                    
possible that  the Permanent Fund would  realize more money,                                                                    
and some  would be  swept into  the CBR,  or the  fund could                                                                    
underperform  expectations and  the appropriations  could be                                                                    
partially  hollow.  He noted  that  there  could be  greater                                                                    
impacts to certain funds over  others. He suggested that the                                                                    
governor  had  fund  changes that  in  theory  balanced  the                                                                    
funds,  but   there  was   variability  in   designated  tax                                                                    
collections that could  result in a sweep  or a supplemental                                                                    
budget  item.   He  used  the   example  of   the  Technical                                                                    
Vocational  Education Program  (TVEP) Fund  to illustrate  a                                                                    
situation which had ongoing  supplemental requests each year                                                                    
to adjust  the fund output  for programs. The  matter caused                                                                    
confusion in the budget process  and resulted in uncertainty                                                                    
for the fund recipients.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Painter continued his remarks.  He qualified that if the                                                                    
state  was not  relying  on fund  balances,  there was  much                                                                    
uncertainty  relying  on  year-to-year revenue  through  the                                                                    
designated  funds. He  thought  the constitutional  language                                                                    
might  be  envisioning  putting all  the  revenue  into  the                                                                    
General Fund  and spending out  of one big pot,  but pointed                                                                    
out that was  not how the state budgeted. He  thought if the                                                                    
state did not  have the ability to carry  forward funds from                                                                    
one year to  another, it created some  budgetary tension and                                                                    
difficulty as was being seen currently.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:59:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  asked  for Mr.  Painter  to  discuss  the                                                                    
timing of a reverse sweep  and three-quarters vote needed to                                                                    
access the  CBR. He  thought some  years there  were several                                                                    
votes. He asked when the vote  might be critical and when it                                                                    
might be just an exercise.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Painter  explained that when  there was CBR  language in                                                                    
the bill, such  as in the House operating  budget, the House                                                                    
would  vote  on  it  and   even  if  the  vote  failed,  the                                                                    
Conference  Committee could  add the  CBR section  back into                                                                    
the bill.  If the  Conference Committee budget  came forward                                                                    
with  a CBR  vote,  the  version was  critical  and the  CBR                                                                    
portion  could  not be  put  back  if  the vote  failed.  He                                                                    
summarized that the votes  taken before Conference Committee                                                                    
did not  really have a  large practical application,  as the                                                                    
provision  would   have  to  be   voted  on   in  Conference                                                                    
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman considered if the  Senate failed to vote on                                                                    
a CBR provision before bringing  the provision up for a vote                                                                    
for the Conference Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Painter answered  in the  affirmative.  He thought  the                                                                    
Legislative  Legal Division  could better  address adding  a                                                                    
CBR section  in the Conference  Committee that had  not been                                                                    
included in either body.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman thought  the addition  had been  made many                                                                    
times.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:02:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEGAN WALLACE, DIRECTOR,  LEGISLATIVE LEGAL SERVICES, ALASKA                                                                    
STATE LEGISLATURE, relayed that  she would discuss the legal                                                                    
background of  the sweep and  delve into a couple  of recent                                                                    
court cases  that touched  on the issues  and how  the cases                                                                    
influenced  the interpretation  of the  timing of  the sweep                                                                    
and what was sweepable.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace explained  that there  was a  two-part test  to                                                                    
determine  if  a fund  was  sweepable  as mentioned  by  Mr.                                                                    
Painter. The  test was to determine  if the money in  a fund                                                                    
was in the General Fund and  whether or not it was available                                                                    
for appropriation.  She explained that up  until the current                                                                    
year,  there was  only one  court case  that touched  on the                                                                    
CBR,  which was  Hickel  v. Cowper  [a  1994 Alaska  Supreme                                                                    
Court  case which  had addressed  the meaning  of "available                                                                    
for appropriation."].  The case interpreted  what  available                                                                    
for appropriation  meant in the  context of the statute that                                                                    
allowed  the legislature  to withdraw  monies  from the  CBR                                                                    
with a simple majority vote.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace continued to address  the Hickel v. Cowper case.                                                                    
She relayed  that the  court went  through the  analysis for                                                                    
the first  time to determine  what funds were  available for                                                                    
appropriation as the term was  used in the constitution. The                                                                    
court  held   that  funds  that   may  be  used   for  state                                                                    
expenditures without further  legislative appropriation were                                                                    
not  available for  appropriation. Therefore,  if the  funds                                                                    
were not available for appropriation,  they were not subject                                                                    
to the sweep.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace  continued her  comments.  She  cited that  the                                                                    
Alaska  Supreme Court  said that  funds that  require future                                                                    
appropriation to  be expended were considered  available for                                                                    
appropriation  and thus  were subject  to  the sweep.  There                                                                    
were two  cases in the  previous year that related  to sweep                                                                    
issues. She mentioned  the case involving the  PCE Fund that                                                                    
was referenced  by Mr. Steininger  [AFN v.  Dunleavy], which                                                                    
was decided in  August of 2021 by the  Alaska Superior Court                                                                    
and was not appealed by  the administration. The second case                                                                    
involved  the Higher  Education  Investment  Fund [Short  v.                                                                    
Dunleavy]. The Alaska Superior Court  handed down a decision                                                                    
in February  2022, and the  case was currently  under active                                                                    
appeal in the Alaska Supreme Court.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace explained that the  first case, AFN v. Dunleavy,                                                                    
focused on  the first part  of the sweepability  test, which                                                                    
was  whether  or not  the  PCE  Endowment  Fund was  in  the                                                                    
General  Fund.  The  court  had   held  that  the  fund  was                                                                    
available for  appropriation, but that  the fund was  not in                                                                    
the General  Fund. The  court held  that the  department was                                                                    
permanently enjoined  from sweeping the PCE  Endowment Fund.                                                                    
Since the  ruling was  not appealed, the  fund would  not be                                                                    
swept.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:06:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace  continued to discuss  the cases. The  court, in                                                                    
issuing  the  AFN  v.  Dunleavy   decision,  had  a  lengthy                                                                    
discussion on the legislatures   power to establish separate                                                                    
funds outside  the General  Fund. The  court noted  that the                                                                    
legislature had done  so in a number of other  cases and had                                                                    
indeed created separate funds that  were outside the General                                                                    
Fund.  She referenced  Footnote 77  of the  AFN v.  Dunleavy                                                                    
case, in which  the Superior Court of Alaska  noted that the                                                                    
legislature  had the  power to  establish funds  outside the                                                                    
General Fund  and specifically noted  examples where  it had                                                                    
been  done. One  of the  funds noted  by the  court was  the                                                                    
Statutory Budget  Reserve (SBR) Fund, which  was established                                                                    
as  a separate  fund in  the  state treasury.  Based on  the                                                                    
analysis  in the  Superior Court  decision, the  Legislative                                                                    
Legal  Division had  previously advised  that the  SBR would                                                                    
likely  be  considered  outside the  General  Fund  and  not                                                                    
subject to the sweep.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace  concurred with Mr. Steininger  that reliance on                                                                    
the AFN  v. Dunleavy  opinion for funds  other than  the PCE                                                                    
Endowment Fund  was subject to change  or further challenge,                                                                    
as  the case  holding was  only  specific to  the PCE  Fund.                                                                    
Based on the  analysis in the opinion and the  fact that the                                                                    
case was not appealed, it  was persuasive to the position of                                                                    
Legislative  Legal in  advising the  legislature as  to what                                                                    
decisions  would come  from other  courts if  the issue  was                                                                    
further litigated.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace  addressed the mechanics  of the sweep,  and how                                                                    
and when  the sweep  took place. She  recounted that  it had                                                                    
historically  been  the  advice  of her  office  that  funds                                                                    
subject to  the sweep were swept  on June 30 as  a matter of                                                                    
law and a  matter of operation of  the constitution. Because                                                                    
appropriations  for the  upcoming fiscal  year did  not take                                                                    
effect until July  1, any balance of a sweepable  fund as of                                                                    
June 30  was swept.  She continued that  appropriations that                                                                    
were to take  effect on July 1, if  swept, would essentially                                                                    
be left hollow or without funding.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:09:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace referenced  an Attorney  General's opinion  the                                                                    
previous   year  took   a   different   position  than   the                                                                    
Legislative Legal  Division. She explained that  the opinion                                                                    
that relied  on a  sentence from the  Hickel v.  Cowper case                                                                    
that stated  that "monies which  had already  been committed                                                                    
by the legislature to some  purpose should not be counted as                                                                    
available.  The  attorney general  had advised in  a written                                                                    
opinion  that it  was legally  defensible to  not sweep  the                                                                    
upcoming FY  22 funds  appropriated in  the budget  that had                                                                    
passed  but  had not  yet  taken  effect. The  governor  had                                                                    
relied  on   the  opinion  and   ordered  that  the   FY  22                                                                    
appropriations  not be  swept.  The  appropriations for  the                                                                    
upcoming  fiscal year  were expended  even though  the sweep                                                                    
occurred  on June  30, and  the appropriations  had not  yet                                                                    
taken effect.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace  highlighted that the  attorneys  interpretation                                                                    
of Hickel  v. Cowper was  a new interpretation and  one that                                                                    
had not  been previously  taken by prior  administrations or                                                                    
legal departments,  as well  as LFD  or the  audit division.                                                                    
She mentioned the  Short v. Dunleavy case,  which related to                                                                    
the  Higher Education  Investment Fund,  and had  originated                                                                    
because  the  administration  had  deemed  the  fund  to  be                                                                    
sweepable.  While the  FY 22  appropriations  from the  fund                                                                    
were  allowed to  go forward  and  be expended  so that  the                                                                    
program was not  impact, the balance of the fund  was due to                                                                    
be swept at the end of  June. There was a legal challenge to                                                                    
the position by the administration  by a group of plaintiffs                                                                    
that had  argued to the  court that  the fund should  not be                                                                    
sweepable.  There  had been  a  Superior  Court decision  in                                                                    
February  of  2022  that  held  that  the  Higher  Education                                                                    
Investment Fund was  sweepable. In the case,  the court also                                                                    
said  that while  the fund  was available  for appropriation                                                                    
and subject to the sweep,  the FY 22 appropriations made out                                                                    
of the  fund should not  be swept  because the money  was no                                                                    
longer  available  for  appropriation because  it  could  be                                                                    
expended  without further  legislative action.  The decision                                                                    
in  the  Superior  Court was  appealed  immediately  by  the                                                                    
plaintiffs  on an  expedited basis  and was  actively before                                                                    
the Alaska Supreme Court on  an expedited briefing schedule.                                                                    
The case had  been briefed and was due for  oral argument by                                                                    
May 3.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:13:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace recounted  that  the parties  in  the case  had                                                                    
requested a decision by May 4,  but the court did not commit                                                                    
to providing a decision by  the requested date. The Superior                                                                    
Court touched  on the issue of  whether or not it  was ok to                                                                    
"scoop" or  payout an upcoming appropriation  whether or not                                                                    
they  had taken  effect. She  noted that  the court  had not                                                                    
specifically adopted  the  validly committed   argument. The                                                                    
court  had   taken  a  different  analysis   and  said  that                                                                    
essentially once  the legislature passed the  budget and the                                                                    
appropriations were enacted, even  without taking effect the                                                                    
monies   could   eventually   be   spent   without   further                                                                    
legislative  action.  She  questioned  whether  the  Supreme                                                                    
Court would address  the issue, and whether  it would agree.                                                                    
She  shared  that  part of  the  uncertainty  would  involve                                                                    
whatever the Alaska Supreme Court ruled on the issue.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:15:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  von Imhof  thanked Ms.  Wallace for  her narrative.                                                                    
She asked for something in writing.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace agreed to provide the information.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator  von Imhof  recalled  Ms.  Wallace mentioning  funds                                                                    
expended  and passed  by the  legislature  from a  sweepable                                                                    
fund,  such  as the  Higher  Education  Endowment Fund.  She                                                                    
asked  Ms. Wallace  to reiterate  the  information about  an                                                                    
opinion.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace shared  that  she had  referred  to an  opinion                                                                    
authored by the  attorney general (copy on  file). On August                                                                    
25,  2021,  Attorney  General  Treg  Taylor  had  issued  an                                                                    
opinion to the  governor that indicated based  on the Hickel                                                                    
v. Cowper  case, once the legislature  had validly committed                                                                    
funds,  it  would  be  legally defensible  to  pay  out  the                                                                    
appropriations for the FY 22  budget and sweep the blance of                                                                    
the  fund afterward.  After the  opinion  was issued,  there                                                                    
were letters signed  by the governor that  indicated that in                                                                    
reliance  of  the  opinion,  he would  direct  OMB  and  the                                                                    
department to  pay out  the FY  22 appropriations  and sweep                                                                    
the balance of the funds.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator  von Imhof  thought Ms.  Wallace had  indicated that                                                                    
the  attorney   generals   opinion  was  a   diversion  from                                                                    
previous opinions.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace  stated that to  her knowledge, the  opinion was                                                                    
the first  time the  attorney general or  the administration                                                                    
had taken  the position  or reached the  interpretation. She                                                                    
noted that  FY 22  was the  first time in  a very  long time                                                                    
that the legislature failed to  enact the reverse sweep. She                                                                    
thought  of the  reason that  there may  not have  been much                                                                    
legal analysis  on the issue  was because the topic  had not                                                                    
been  at the  forefront of  the budget  discussion in  prior                                                                    
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:18:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wielechowski asked  if  there was  anything in  the                                                                    
legislative   history   of   the   1990   legislature   that                                                                    
demonstrated  a knowledge  of a  distinction among  funds in                                                                    
the  General  Fund  versus  not  in  the  General  Fund.  He                                                                    
wondered  if there  was  discussion of  the  topic when  the                                                                    
constitutional amendment was being proposed.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace  did  not recall  whether  there  was  specific                                                                    
discussion on the  issue. With respect to the  sweep and the                                                                    
provision  in  Article  IX,  Section  17  (d),  it  was  her                                                                    
recollection that the legislative  history was not as robust                                                                    
as that of other provisions.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wielechowski was  trying  to  determine the  intent                                                                    
when the amendment was created,  and whether it was a simple                                                                    
as the legislature choosing which  funds it wanted swept and                                                                    
which funds it  did not. He thought that  the Superior Court                                                                    
had indicated so. He asked Ms. Wallace to opine.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Wallace  noted   that  the   constitutional  provision                                                                    
specifically stated that the  legislature shall provide some                                                                    
guidelines on  how to carry  out the provision.  When Hickel                                                                    
v. Cowper  was decided  in the 1990s,  the court  touched on                                                                    
the  issue in  saying that  while the  legislature had  some                                                                    
discretion to set  policy and create rules, it had  to do so                                                                    
within  the framework  of  the  provision. She  acknowledged                                                                    
that her  answer was  vague and  suggested it  was dependent                                                                    
upon how far the legislature  went in terms of defining what                                                                    
was and was not sweepable.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wielechowski recalled  that the  previous year  the                                                                    
governor  had an  interpretation about  funds being  validly                                                                    
committed  (pre-midnight June  30), and  the funds  could be                                                                    
shielded from  being swept.  He asked if  Ms. Wallace  had a                                                                    
position  on  whether   the  governors   interpretation  was                                                                    
accurate.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace reiterated that her  office had held the opinion                                                                    
that the sweep  occurs on June 30 at midnight,  and that any                                                                    
monies remaining  in the funds  would be swept  at midnight.                                                                    
Further, that the appropriations that  took effect on July 1                                                                    
(even  thought others  might argue  the monies  were validly                                                                    
committed) should  be swept.  The Superior  Court (regarding                                                                    
the  Higher Education  Investment Fund)  concurred with  the                                                                    
administration to the  extent that it agreed that  the FY 22                                                                    
appropriations could  be paid out.  The court did  not adopt                                                                    
the  validly committed   argument, and she did  not think it                                                                    
appeared to be a settled issue.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wielechowski thought  it appeared  that there  were                                                                    
several  capital   projects  that   had  not   been  validly                                                                    
appropriated because the  funds had been swept.  He asked if                                                                    
Ms. Wallace was  familiar with the projects or  the issue he                                                                    
referred to.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace  thought  Senator Wielechowski  had  referenced                                                                    
some capital  appropriations that  were funded out  of funds                                                                    
that would have been swept if  there was not a reverse sweep                                                                    
passed.  She did  not specifically  recall the  fund sources                                                                    
and deferred to the LFD director.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:23:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator von Imhof referenced the  list from LFD of sweepable                                                                    
and non-sweepable  funds. She found it  interesting that the                                                                    
SBR  was listed  in  the list  of  non-sweepable funds.  She                                                                    
thought Ms.  Wallace had mentioned  that it was  possible to                                                                    
change  statute or  institute laws  within the  framework of                                                                    
the constitution  to make more  of the  funds non-sweepable.                                                                    
She asked if there had  been a study that examined sweepable                                                                    
and  non-sweepable   funds  that  determined   the  specific                                                                    
characteristics that  put them  on each  list. She  asked if                                                                    
there was a path identified  for steps the legislature could                                                                    
take to make  (within the framework of  the constitution) as                                                                    
many funds as possible non-sweepable.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace  did not  think there  was currently  a document                                                                    
that  went one  step further  to explain  reasoning for  why                                                                    
funds  were  listed as  sweepable  or  not. She  thought  an                                                                    
analysis  could be  done on  why  a fund  was sweepable  and                                                                    
whether  there  was  a  legislative  option  to  change  the                                                                    
designation  of  a  fund.  She  continued  that  there  were                                                                    
several pieces  of pending legislation that  attempted to do                                                                    
so in certain  instances. She emphasized that  while the AFN                                                                    
v.  Dunleavy   Superior  Court  decision  was   lengthy  and                                                                    
detailed, and analyzed why the  legislature had the power to                                                                    
create separate funds  outside the General Fund,  it was not                                                                    
an issue  that had been  taken to the Alaska  Supreme Court.                                                                    
While  there   were  legislative  options,  she   could  not                                                                    
guarantee that  such changes would  not be subject  to later                                                                    
challenge.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski  referenced the funds that  the Supreme                                                                    
Court said  were already appropriated  in Hickel  v. Cowper.                                                                    
He asked when  the governor's veto authority  expired on the                                                                    
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace  stated  that  the  governors   veto  authority                                                                    
expired either within  the time frame that  the governor had                                                                    
to  exercise  his line-item  power.  The  timeline would  be                                                                    
dependent upon  when the  legislature transmitted  the bill,                                                                    
but the time frame was finite.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:28:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KRIS  CURTIS,   LEGISLATIVE  AUDITOR,  ALASKA   DIVISION  OF                                                                    
LEGISLATIVE AUDIT,  stated that  her role in  testifying was                                                                    
to present how the sweep  and reverse sweep (or  scoop)  was                                                                    
presented in the states financial statements for FY 21.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Stedman  asked   Ms.   Curtis   to  discuss   her                                                                    
background.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Curtis  explained that she was  the legislative auditor,                                                                    
which was  a constitutional  position, and statute  gave the                                                                    
position the authority to carry  out the post-audit function                                                                    
of conducting the states  financial  statement audit and the                                                                    
state  federal  compliance   audit.  The  Legislative  Audit                                                                    
Division (LAD) also conducted special  audits at the request                                                                    
of the  Legislative Budget and  Audit Committee.  Each year,                                                                    
the division  received a draft  set of  financial statements                                                                    
from  the  Division of  Finance  and  began the  audit.  She                                                                    
continued that  at the end  of the audit, the  auditor would                                                                    
produce an  opinion as to  whether the  financial statements                                                                    
were free of material misstatement.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Curtis relayed  that  because of  the  guidance by  the                                                                    
attorney  general, it  was determined  that there  were fund                                                                    
balances that  were appropriated  for FY 22,  effective July                                                                    
1, 2021, that  were funded by sub-funds of  the General Fund                                                                    
that were  going to be  swept because the reverse  sweep did                                                                    
not occur.  The appropriations  were potentially  hollow and                                                                    
would not be  funded. Based on the guidance  of the attorney                                                                    
general, it  was determined that because  the operating bill                                                                    
was signed (she thought on  June 30) the appropriations were                                                                    
validly  committed and  the funds  would not  be swept.  She                                                                    
cited  that  the  draft   financial  statements  had  $108.6                                                                    
million of funds assigned for 20 sub funds.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Curtis  continued  that  based  on  guidance  from  the                                                                    
Legislative Legal  Department, LAD  had thought it  was more                                                                    
persuasive to  conclude that because the  effective date was                                                                    
July 1, the  funds would not be available  to assign because                                                                    
the funds would be swept. She  cited AS 01.10.070 (f) (3) of                                                                    
the  statutes   that  defined  the  effective   date,  which                                                                    
addressed  when the  bill was  applicable. The  division had                                                                    
produced  an  audit adjustment,  which  it  provided to  the                                                                    
Division  of Finance,  and  the audit  was  not posted.  She                                                                    
summarized  that LAD  believed there  was a  misstatement in                                                                    
the  financial statements,  mainly  related  to the  General                                                                    
Fund balance sheet. The balance  sheet showed $108.6 million                                                                    
was  considered assigned,  while  LAD  considered the  funds                                                                    
should be unassigned and swept.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:32:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  asked about  the significance  of accurate                                                                    
financial statements.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Curtis  explained  that  she  had  issued  a  qualified                                                                    
opinion and  did not believe  the financial  statements were                                                                    
free  of material  misstatement. Rather,  she believed  that                                                                    
there was a $108.6 million misstatement.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator von  Imhof asked if  it could mean  greater interest                                                                    
rates  if outside  entities such  as creditors  realized the                                                                    
state had a material misstatement.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Curtis informed that the  state had qualifications since                                                                    
FY 18  or FY  19. She thought  it was hard  to tell  how the                                                                    
qualification affected the states   debt rating, since there                                                                    
were so many other factors  affecting the rating. She argued                                                                    
that it was  prudent to have clean  financial statements and                                                                    
was sure  the executive  branch would  argue that  there was                                                                    
not  a  misstatement.  She described  the  situation  as  an                                                                    
impasse.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Bishop   asked  if   the  difference   of  opinion                                                                    
jeopardized federal funding coming into the state.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Curtis  did not  think the  difference of  opinion would                                                                    
have any effect on federal funding.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:34:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilson  asked how Ms. Curtis  recommended fixing the                                                                    
impasse.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Curtis   thought  the  biggest   material  misstatement                                                                    
related  to  Federal  Energy  Regulatory  Commission  (FERC)                                                                    
decisions and  additional revenue to the  state, and whether                                                                    
the revenue  was deposited to  the CBR or the  General Fund.                                                                    
It  had been  discussed at  previous Legislative  Budget and                                                                    
Audit  meetings that  there was  a different  constitutional                                                                    
interpretation  based on  behalf  of  the Legislative  Legal                                                                    
Division  and   the  attorney   general.  She   thought  the                                                                    
disagreement would have to be resolved by the courts.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wielechowski  asked  if   there  were  any  capital                                                                    
projects that should  have been swept on June  30 (under Ms.                                                                    
Curtis interpretation) that were subsequently funded.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Curtis answered  in the affirmative, and  stated that as                                                                    
of June 30, $108.6 million in  funds were carved out and not                                                                    
swept.  She could  not comment  on what  appropriations were                                                                    
funded with the monies.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator von Imhof thought Ms.  Curtis had mentioned that the                                                                    
governor had signed  the previous years  budget  on June 30,                                                                    
which was the eve of  the sweep. She referenced the attorney                                                                    
generals  opinion and asked what  would have happened if the                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
governor had signed the budget on July 3or July 4.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Curtis  thought that based  on her understanding  of the                                                                    
logic, the funds  would have swept as of June  30, since the                                                                    
budget was not signed and enacted.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator  von Imhof  asked  if the  governor  had signed  the                                                                    
budget  on June  30 the  previous year,  on the  eve of  the                                                                    
sweep.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Curtis  answered   yes,   and  continued  that  in  the                                                                    
governors   view,  the  funds   were  validly  committed  or                                                                    
assigned before  the sweep.  If the  budget would  have been                                                                    
signed on July  4, she thought the sweep  would already have                                                                    
taken place.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  von  Imhof  commented on  the  convenience  of  the                                                                    
timing.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman thought  it was  clear that  not having  a                                                                    
reverse sweep was a mess if the matter was not rectified.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:38:04 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:39:26 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  asked for Mr.  Steininger to come  back to                                                                    
the table.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Stedman   asked    Mr.   Steininger   about   the                                                                    
hypothetical  question  of  whether the  budget  legislation                                                                    
being signed on July 3 or  July 4 would affect the mechanics                                                                    
of the sweep.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  answered in  the affirmative.  He referenced                                                                    
the Governmental  Accounting Standards Board (GASB)  rule of                                                                    
thumb that defined what could  be considered to be assigned,                                                                    
and  required the  bill  be  signed into  law  as a  validly                                                                    
enacted  appropriation  prior to  the  close  of the  fiscal                                                                    
year. He continued  that had the budget been  signed on July                                                                    
4 or July 5 after the  start of the fiscal year, there would                                                                    
have been  several budgetary complications that  had arisen.                                                                    
He  continued  that if  the  administration  had signed  the                                                                    
budget after the start of  the fiscal year, there would have                                                                    
been  a   period  without  a  validly   enacted  budget.  He                                                                    
contended that the  governor and OMB ensured  the budget was                                                                    
signed prior to the start of  the fiscal year to ensure that                                                                    
government   operations  could   continue  in   addition  to                                                                    
resolving the assigned balance issue.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:41:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski  recalled that the previous  year there                                                                    
had been a failed three-quarter  vote which had included the                                                                    
Higher  Education Fund.  He asked  if  his recollection  was                                                                    
correct.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger answered   yes," that  the Higher  Education                                                                    
Fund was included.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski  asked if  it was  the administrations                                                                     
position was  that because there was  no valid three-quarter                                                                    
vote, the funds should be swept.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Steininger  mentioned   that  the   advice  from   the                                                                    
Department of  Law was  that the  Higher Education  Fund was                                                                    
subject to the sweep.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked  if there was anything  else that was                                                                    
funded with the failed three-quarter vote.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger  recalled  that   there  were  a  number  of                                                                    
appropriations  from   Alcohol  Tax  revenue,   Tobacco  Tax                                                                    
revenue,  and  other  state   programs  where  current  year                                                                    
revenues   would   not   have  been   sufficient   to   meet                                                                    
obligations. He  referenced the PCE  Fund, and  the previous                                                                    
belief that it was subject to the sweep.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wielechowski   thought  there  were  a   couple  of                                                                    
projects  that  the  governor  had  added  to  fund  capital                                                                    
projects in  the Matanuska-Susitna Valley, which  he thought                                                                    
were funded by the three-quarter vote.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger affirmed that there  were a number of capital                                                                    
projects funded by  the SBR. He noted that the  issue of the                                                                    
assignment of  balances did not  relate to why  the projects                                                                    
were able to be executed upon.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Wielechowski   asked   if   Mr.   Steininger   was                                                                    
referencing the CBR.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger affirmed  that he was referencing  the SBR in                                                                    
relation to  the funds.  He continued  that CBR  funds would                                                                    
not have gone  forward without a three-quarter  vote, and he                                                                    
was discussing appropriation of  funds subject to the sweep.                                                                    
He  added  that  the  capital projects  he  thought  Senator                                                                    
Wielechowski  was referencing  were  funded by  the SBR.  He                                                                    
referenced the  AFN v. Dunleavy  case, which  determined the                                                                    
SBR was not sweepable because  it was created outside of the                                                                    
General Fund.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski asked if  Mr. Steininger was indicating                                                                    
that  there were  no  projects funded  through  the CBR  the                                                                    
previous year.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Steininger wanted  to check  the  records but  affirmed                                                                    
that the administration had  not executed any appropriations                                                                    
directly  from the  CBR, because  it had  not had  the legal                                                                    
authority to do so.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:44:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski  asked if  there were  capital projects                                                                    
funded  through the  CBR, if  the projects  would have  been                                                                    
invalidated since the funding had been swept on July 1.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger stated that if  a project was funded directly                                                                    
from the CBR, it would not  be an issue related to the sweep                                                                    
but  rather  would  be  an   issue  related  to  the  access                                                                    
provisions of  the CBR that  required a  three-quarters vote                                                                    
for the  appropriation to  be valid. He  added that  the CBR                                                                    
was not itself a sweepable fund,  but rather was a fund into                                                                    
which funds were swept.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  noted that the  committee would  relay the                                                                    
meetings   conversation on  to  the  Legislative Budget  and                                                                    
Audit Committee,  most likely for further  action to clarify                                                                    
what was sweepable and what was legally defensible.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman discussed  the  agenda  for the  following                                                                    
day.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
2:46:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 2:46 p.m.